Suspect puts drugs in his mouth; cop breaks his neck

[Illadelphian]

Originally Posted by article

LIVINGSTON, LA (WAFB) - The Livingston Parish Sheriff's Office has released the dash cam video of a deadly traffic stop and in doing so said its deputies followed procedure.

The video shows Deputy Chris Sturdivant as he pulls over 42-year-old Adam Stogner. The tape starts with the deputy asking Stogner for his license. It ends with an officer asking the man if he's still breathing.

Chief Deputy Jason Ard says when the video starts Adam Stogner did not put his truck in park. They say that backs up the reason he was pulled over. The deputy believed he was impaired. On the tape, there is audio of the deputy asking for Stogner's license. "What you got in your hand? the deputy then asks. "Give me your hand," he demands. "I don't have nothing in my hand," Stogner responds. "I swear to you."

The media watched the video with Ard and several other law enforcement agents. "Pay attention to the subject's right hand," Ard said. On the dash cam video, the deputy tells Stogner to open his hand. Deputies say they believe Stogner was holding a baggy of narcotics in his right hand. The tape shows Stogner moving something from one hand to the other and placing it in his mouth. "Did you see him put it in his mouth? Ard asks. "Right there and this is where the struggle starts," he points out. "Spit it out!" the deputy tells Stogner.

All this is happening while the deputy was trying to handcuff the man. The deputy does get one cuff on, but because the two seem to be in a wrestling match, Ard says that loose cuff can be a weapon. At several points, there are images of what looks like the deputy hitting Stogner. The sheriff's office says another time it looks like Stogner is crawling toward the interstate with the deputy on his back. And again, it appears the deputy hits the man.

"He was appropriate in his actions. He followed departmental protocol in trying to arrest a subject who tried to resist," Ard said. Only after two more deputies arrive on scene is Stogner completely cuffed. Keep in mind, the baggy is still in his mouth. It's then that one of the deputies notices Stogner is having trouble breathing and calls for medical help. "Is he breathing?" one of the deputies asked. "I don't know," another answered.

Deputies say Stogner later died along Interstate 12. Deputies did start CPR until EMS arrived. Peter John, the family's lawyer, says only one thing is clear from the tape. He says Adam Stogner never tried to hit the deputy. "Adam got his butt beat, okay, 'cause he's all bruised up and dead," John said. "Is that justified by what the officer wanted out of his hand?"

Stogner's family's attorney says the family plans to conduct its own autopsy and investigation. Preliminary results from the Livingston Parish coroner show Stogner died from severe coronary artery disease, an enlarged heart, and a fracture of the hyoid bone in his neck. Dr. Ron Coe says the fracture may be due to force being applied to that area. Dr. Coe says Stogner also tested positive for methamphetamine. The coroner also said the death was accidental. Louisiana State Police have been called in to assist the sheriff's office in investigating this case.

FULL STORY

"Authorities in Livingston Parish, Louisiana say a deputy acted appropriately in trying to arrest a man at a traffic stop who died while in custody."

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I AGREE

edit: I fucked up the title and tried to fix it but it won't let me. If someone could that would be appreciated

[RobotPoop]

This fuckin cop is pathetic. What a titanically excessive amount of force used. And I'm not at all a "Fuck THA POLICE MANN!NN!!!" but FUCK this cop. Knowing down south, he'll probably be suspended with pay for a week. And then his hand will be red and swollen from high fiving on his first day back at the precinct...

Shameful.

[chrol]

Unfuckingbelievable. What an absolutely vile cop. Sadly I don't suspect he'll be reprimanded...

[wng-]

Fixed the title, put the full story in the quote, and added a youtube dash cam, you are welcome.

Haven't watched or read this yet, but it sounds fucked up.

[Illadelphian]

Originally Posted by wng-

Fixed the title, put the full story in the quote, and added a youtube dash cam, you are welcome.

Haven't watched or read this yet, but it sounds fucked up.

Thanks, I kinda just copy pasted it from my thread on cd. It's really fucked up yet somehow people agree with the cop even though it was pretty clear that he wasn't trying to hurt the cop or do anything besides eat his drugs. He should have just spit it out but the cop should have known not to use that kind of excessive force and his brutality ended up killing the guy.

[djwolford]

If there's anything that I've learned in my life, it's that if a cop tells you to open your hand, don't start struggling with him. He could have had anything in that hand, unfortunately it was just a baggy. You can blame the cop all day long, but I think that everyone here is smart enough to know that this is the guy's fault. If you cooperate and do what you're told, you get cuffed and either taken to jail or let go, depending on whether or not you've done anything wrong. You stay alive that way though. If you go to hiding things from the cop that could potentially threaten his life, or try to struggle with him as he moves you against his car to cuff you, there's a good possibility that you'll be hurt or killed.

The bottom line is that the cop acted responsibly and intelligently in trying to subdue a crazy strung out guy that presented a possible threat to his life, and a crazy strung out guy acted in a way that made a police officer question his safety. It's 100% the meth head's fault, and it's quite unfortunate, but I find it appalling that anyone would take his side in this. Strong lack of respect for our men in blue and their desire to make it home alive at night guys.

[raghead]

Originally Posted by djwolford

The bottom line is that the cop acted responsibly and intelligently in trying to subdue a crazy strung out guy that presented a possible threat to his life, and a crazy strung out guy acted in a way that made a police officer question his safety.

Exactly.
Of course to us sitting back in our chair watching the video on a computer we can see that he was just trying to hid drugs and not hurt anyone. You think the cop was thinking that clearly struggling with a guy that can potentially be hiding some sort of weapon in his hand? I don't know what was going through his head when the guy swallowed what was in his hand, but I guarantee you it wasn't "I'm going to kill this fucker for swallowing drugs".
We can sit back all day and say that its obvious he couldn't have swallowed something that could have harmed the officer, but when you have your adrenaline pumping like that and you think your life could be in danger, you don't think logically.

[Socially Inept]

personally, being a girl i've always had good luck with cops (i've never actually been "in trouble" and have been let go with a warning from 90% of speeding tickets).. Maybe it's just me, but I cannot imagine why *anyone* (especially someone who has drugs on them) would resist a cop or not follow directions/ do what they say. This is what happens, people get their faces smashed in the ground/ tazed/ fist in back, knee in neck etc.. It makes absolutely no sense to me. If the cop says "open your hand" and the dude just refuses, what is the cop supposed to just say "oh, ok cool man... just do what you want then"? No. He's a fucking cop, he (or she) isn't going to just back down when you don't do what they say.. they are going to do whatever they want until you comply with them. In this case the guy got his neck broken.. sorry guy, you should have spit it out, or thought of something more clever than sticking your drugs in your mouth.. now your dead over a small bag of meth.

i'm definitely not a cop lover, i know a few personally who are dicks and party just as much as anyone else.. some are power abusers, but most are just doing their job. I has been my experience (and not just because i'm cute girl) that if you are normal and polite and just do what the cops say, they won't break your neck or taze you just for sport...

just my two cents

[DiverDan]

Originally Posted by djwolford

If there's anything that I've learned in my life, it's that if a cop tells you to open your hand, don't start struggling with him. He could have had anything in that hand, unfortunately it was just a baggy. You can blame the cop all day long, but I think that everyone here is smart enough to know that this is the guy's fault. If you cooperate and do what you're told, you get cuffed and either taken to jail or let go, depending on whether or not you've done anything wrong. You stay alive that way though. If you go to hiding things from the cop that could potentially threaten his life, or try to struggle with him as he moves you against his car to cuff you, there's a good possibility that you'll be hurt or killed.

The bottom line is that the cop acted responsibly and intelligently in trying to subdue a crazy strung out guy that presented a possible threat to his life, and a crazy strung out guy acted in a way that made a police officer question his safety. It's 100% the meth head's fault, and it's quite unfortunate, but I find it appalling that anyone would take his side in this. Strong lack of respect for our men in blue and their desire to make it home alive at night guys.

This is exactly what I would have said, and I thank djwolford because now I don't have to and I can just quote it. Especially the bold portion.

[J Dizz]

You wont be saying that shit if it happened to you.

[dnbmember]

As a police officer I am sure he has had proper training on subduing someone resisting arrest without "accidently" killing him.

[Metameme]

I don't care, even resisting arrest and disobeying what the officer said is NOT grounds on beating a man to such degree. That's FUCKED up.

My mind is blown right now after watching that footage.

[RobotPoop]

Dude there is no justifying using deadly force in order to make the guy spit out drugs. The man was obviously intoxicated on something, and I understand the cop has to be EXTREMELY careful because he does not know on what. But once he had that choke sunk in the suspect is defenseless. Once a choke is sunk in tight like that you completely control the person, especially when it's sunk in from behind like that with both legs wrapped around the victim's torso. There literally is no escaping unless you are masterfully trained in hand to hand combat. And you certainly do not have to squeeze to the point of breaking the victim's neck. And it's not a fine line either between keeping the suspect subdued and breaking his neck. You have to choke the SHIT out of someone in order to do that. Believe me, I know, I have defused many hostile situations against me by simply throwing some drunken asshole into a choke. Even a nice loose one is extremely uncomfortable and most often results in immediate surrender.

99% of the time I am totally on the cop's side in situations like this. Cause they don't know what the guy is fucked up on and they have to be extremely careful. Even if this was a shooting I might be able to understand an argument from the cop's perspective. If anything I believe that we have completely handcuffed police officers when it comes to discharging their weapons (pardon the pun). But in this case there is no other explanation for breaking a man's neck than a completely incompetent cop using deadly and excessive force. Sorry.

Go to youtube and search "rear naked choke," which is what it is called in MMA and watch how quickly it puts people out. The guys in the videos are trained fighters and they're not using a quarter of the force necessary to break someone's neck...

I repeat: Shameful.

[Metameme]

Originally Posted by RobotPoop

Dude there is no justifying using deadly force in order to make the guy spit out drugs. The man was obviously intoxicated on something, and I understand the cop has to be EXTREMELY careful because he does not know on what. But once he had that choke sunk in the suspect is defenseless. Once a choke is sunk in tight like that you completely control the person, especially when it's sunk in from behind like that with both legs wrapped around the victim's torso. There literally is no escaping unless you are masterfully trained in hand to hand combat. And you certainly do not have to squeeze to the point of breaking the victim's neck. And it's not a fine line either between keeping the suspect subdued and breaking his neck. You have to choke the SHIT out of someone in order to do that. Believe me, I know, I have defused many hostile situations against me by simply throwing some drunken asshole into a choke. Even a nice loose one is extremely uncomfortable and most often results in immediate surrender.

99% of the time I am totally on the cop's side in situations like this. Cause they don't know what the guy is fucked up on and they have to be extremely careful. Even if this was a shooting I might be able to understand an argument from the cop's perspective. If anything I believe that we have completely handcuffed police officers when it comes to discharging their weapons (pardon the pun). But in this case there is no other explanation for breaking a man's neck than a completely incompetent cop using deadly and excessive force. Sorry.

Amen.

[djwolford]

Originally Posted by J Dizz

You wont be saying that shit if it happened to you.

That wouldn't happen to me, because I would cooperate with the cop. Anytime you resist or struggle you run the risk of getting hurt because that cop has to do what he has to do to get you under control. If that means trying to hold on to your neck and you end up dying because of it, that's your fault, not the cop's. It's pretty obvious from the video that the officer didn't make a blatant attempt at trying to snap the guys neck, it was clearly an accident. I can't see how anyone can make excuses for the suspect.

[Illadelphian]

Originally Posted by djwolford

That wouldn't happen to me, because I would cooperate with the cop. Anytime you resist or struggle you run the risk of getting hurt because that cop has to do what he has to do to get you under control. If that means trying to hold on to your neck and you end up dying because of it, that's your fault, not the cop's. It's pretty obvious from the video that the officer didn't make a blatant attempt at trying to snap the guys neck, it was clearly an accident. I can't see how anyone can make excuses for the suspect.

Did you watch the longer video? Where he chokes him for like 7 minutes straight? Or did you just see the fox news clip that only shows part of it?

[Metameme]

Originally Posted by Killuminati

Did you watch the longer video? Where he chokes him for like 7 minutes straight? Or did you just see the fox news clip that only shows part of it?

Along with a flurry of punches aimed at the suspects head even after the officer was in the dominant position...

[RobotPoop]

Originally Posted by djwolford

That wouldn't happen to me, because I would cooperate with the cop. Anytime you resist or struggle you run the risk of getting hurt because that cop has to do what he has to do to get you under control. If that means trying to hold on to your neck and you end up dying because of it, that's your fault, not the cop's. It's pretty obvious from the video that the officer didn't make a blatant attempt at trying to snap the guys neck, it was clearly an accident. I can't see how anyone can make excuses for the suspect.

Dude I fully agree with you. Once you resist I say you deserve any potential injury you sustain (within limits obviously) while the police officer subdues you. The whole thing could have been averted if the guy just cooperated or didn't go around driving all fucked up. It's after he begins choking him where the fault lies completely with the cop. Again, I can't stress enough how you don't just accidentally choke someone to death. You have to choke the shit out of someone. If that cop didn't know he was using deadly force while choking out that suspect then I reassert the fact that the cop was incompetent and should not have been out on the beat in the first place. The cop is 100% negligent and responsible when it comes to this man being dead.

EDIT: Dude you're a fellow MMA fan. He had the guy in a rear naked. WITH the hooks sunk in. You know how dominating that position is. You don't need to choke someone that hard in order to get them "under control." Actually I don't know if I can think of a position in hand to hand combat where one has more control over one's victim/opponent, haha. I could control a man 10 times my size with a proper rear naked sunk in. It's the Holy Grail of grappling/BJJ positions...

[raghead]

Originally Posted by Killuminati

Did you watch the longer video? Where he chokes him for like 7 minutes straight? Or did you just see the fox news clip that only shows part of it?

In that case I take back what I said before.
The only part I saw is when the guy swallowed the drugs and the cop dragged him to the ground.
There's just no excuse for what he did, I don't know how anyone could justify that shit.

[Blooded]

Anyone who watched the longer video and still agrees that the cop was not to blame at all is either lying or stupid. What could the suspect shove in his mouth that small that would be of ANY danger to a cop to justify deadly force.

Fucking pigs.

[dnbmember]

Originally Posted by djwolford

If there's anything that I've learned in my life, it's that if a cop tells you to open your hand, don't start struggling with him. He could have had anything in that hand, unfortunately it was just a baggy. You can blame the cop all day long, but I think that everyone here is smart enough to know that this is the guy's fault. If you cooperate and do what you're told, you get cuffed and either taken to jail or let go, depending on whether or not you've done anything wrong. You stay alive that way though. If you go to hiding things from the cop that could potentially threaten his life, or try to struggle with him as he moves you against his car to cuff you, there's a good possibility that you'll be hurt or killed.

The bottom line is that the cop acted responsibly and intelligently in trying to subdue a crazy strung out guy that presented a possible threat to his life, and a crazy strung out guy acted in a way that made a police officer question his safety. It's 100% the meth head's fault, and it's quite unfortunate, but I find it appalling that anyone would take his side in this. Strong lack of respect for our men in blue and their desire to make it home alive at night guys.

You obviously think that we all immediately jump on the opposite side of the police in every situation because we are all "dumb stoners". So without even thinking about what you are saying you immediately side WITH the police. If you actually think that was necessary force to use in that video....well than you're fucking stupid.

[BlackWidow]

Dont care what anyone says. Cop was 100% justified in his actions. This suspect was clearly uncooperative and the cop had to protexct is own safety. The fact that the suspect would give such a struggle for what was probably a fucking rock of crack or something is just stupid. Its tough to watch and certainly tough to stomach the fact that the man died, but this shit happens. Trust me, its not like the cop is proud or anything. Im sure he wish it didnt have to end that way of course.

[dnbmember]

I'm not saying he wasn't justified in using force. Clearly he should have used force but you are fucking trained in many many ways to subdue someone not cooperating and killing them is not one.

[Ollie Cromwell]

I don't think some cops are necessarily trained that way. They SHOULD be, but they ain't.

[dnbmember]

That's unsettling. I guess I assumed that would be part of their training.

[super sorry]

Originally Posted by Ollie Cromwell

I don't think some cops are necessarily trained that way. They SHOULD be, but they ain't.

My father was a state trooper, at least in his state they were trained to subdue a criminal as if they were attempting to kill you. They were not trained to get some down on the ground and to give in, if the man was resisting arrest in a non-malicious form. My father while watching the 6 o'clock news complains about this all the time. He'll be sitting in his chair, "Of course they blame the fucking pig, he didn't do anything wrong, did exactly what he's trained to do. They should blame the jackasses upstairs who haven't seen a real criminal in ten years making the training regiments."

And yes, my father, the former cop calls local cops pigs.

[Ollie Cromwell]

State troopers aren't local cops, yeah? I don't know what the score on this particular issue is, but I don't think we can say "oh, he shoulda" without knowing the training that he's gone through and the regulations of his department. There are a lot of podunk-ass townies out there.

I haven't watched the video though, so what do I know? I made it a personal policy to not watch snuff after watching a beheading in the early years of the Iraq war.

[DiverDan]

I dunno, I watched the video and I read the article. I still say the cop did what he thought he had to. The guy clearly was resisting arrest, and the way he was fighting the cop on the ground, the cop could have easily felt that his life was in danger. I still side with the police on this one, and say that if the dude hadn't made every wrong decision possible, he'd probably still be here today. His death was his own fault, not the cop's.

[Blooded]

Originally Posted by m4k

I'm not saying he wasn't justified in using force. Clearly he should have used force but you are fucking trained in many many ways to subdue someone not cooperating and killing them is not one.

Truth. The man was resisting, yeah, but it's not like he was attempting to harm the officer. You can't just decide to strangle someone for 7 minutes for not cooperating/resisting. He's a cop not the SS. How many shows have you seen on t.v where people actually attempt to FIGHT the police and end up getting arrested without being put in a choke hold and strangled to death?

If that was a situation where they're trained to use deadly force than that's mad fucked up.

[BlackWidow]

Originally Posted by DiverDan88

His death was his own fault, not the cop's.

QFT. Exactly what i meant in my post.