Performing a Cold Water Extraction (CWE)

[MrNoddington]

Hi All,
I take about 25 7.5/750 per day and so HAVE to use the CWE method. Some of the tips I have are:


1. Buy a coffee filter holder. Melitta sells one for about $5

https://shop.melitta.com/itemdy00.asp?T1=64+007&Cat=

2. Warm the solution to insure mixing

3. Use 2-3 filters

4. Wet filters in holder and place in freezer. Wet filters stop "good stuff" from creeping up the sides.

5. Add an ice cube to the very cold solution while it is filtering.

Using this method I end up with a very clear solution. The holder makes a huge difference. Hope this helps someone save their liver.

PS.
Also, I occasionally take SAM-E supplements which primarily contain s-adenosyl-methionine which appears to be effective in reducing Acetaminophen toxicity in the liver.

http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB....asp?Doi=78086

[the real Janitor]

New guy here. I roll with 20 vic`s, 7.5. Tried the CWE and used too much water. I still had some apap in the bottom but I must say the buzz was very pure.
It felt stronger and this will be the only way for consumption for me now.It was nasty but
I enjoyed it. thanks for the info.

[wafflehead_77]

Hello everyone. I was browsing this thread and thought I would add a bit of info.

Some of you are asking about the amounts of water required for the extraction. Just thought I would post a little tid-bit about the individual solubilities of each of the opiod combo pills this extraction is useful for.

Hydrocodone bitartrate has a water solubility of approx. 6g per 100g H2O, which equates to 60mg per ml of water.

Oxycodone Hydrochloride has a higher solubility of around 10g per 100g water (100mg per ml of water)

Codeine Sulfate is approx. 30g per 100g h2o (30mg per ml)

Codeine Phosphate, while I cant find an exact figure, is less soluble than the SO4 salt form, but still soluble in water.

So, those with higher solubilities, like H-codone and O-codone need less water for an extraction as Codeine in either of it's available (locally) salt forms. Obviously this does not mean that one could use 1/2ml to extract 50mg of oxycodone from 10 percs, as there needs to be enough water to dissolve all of the powder. So this is more theoretical info (accept that a person may want to use more water when extracting codeine (especially phosphate) than when extracting oxycodone, even at the same given mass off the pills being used)

Also, when judging the efficiency of your extraction, you have to remember that while some of the fillers/binders may be insoluble in cold water, alot of the will be, so just because it seems like you are yielding low amounts of solute (the precipitate that falls out of the water), it does not necessarily mean that the amount of APAP being removed is of a low yield. Different manufacturers use different binders/fillers for their tablets, so even under standardized, laboratory-grade CWE's, the precipitated product amount collected (APAP) could vary greatly, depending on the solubilities of the inactive ingredients in the tablets.
The only real way to find out how efficient your precipitate yield was, is to figure out which ingredients can potentially fall out of solution, and while taking this into consideration, weighing your final (dried; preferably with a highly volatile solvent like methanol to ensure all the water has been evaporated) APAP/binder amount collected and comparing that with the mass of product in the beginning.

Doubt this was very helpful, but hey, maybe someone learned something! haha

by the way, the solubility info was referenced from

http://bulkpharm.mallinckrodt.com/Resources/main.asp

[Socially Inept]

Hello wafflehead (what an odd name)... you seem like someone we might like to keep around here.. try not to make this your only post. Thanks for the info!

[OCLIBRA]

did you ever do it and if so... how long did you freeze it and how long did the effects last?

[Livin1985]

im new here. my pill bottle says "oxycodone w/apap 5/325 ta" can i do a cold water extraction on my pills? ive been snorting them and have snorted more powder into my nose than i can even imagine, but nonetheless, i did, and am feeling really crappy actually. part of it may be b/c i was taking tramadol for awhile ( a lot, i went thru 120 pills in 7 days) and am now out of them, so is the withdrawl from the tramadol causing the oxycodone to not work as well as it usually does as far as the euphoria and energy surge? normally snorting 3 or 4 of my oxycodone gives me a good effect, well, ive snorted probably about 15 over the course of the day and am feeling only bad side effects, nothing good. blurred vision, weakness, aches and pains (yeah, go figure) headaches, my hands and feet are ice cold but my face ears lips and eyes are very hot, and i have that awful, 'been doing coke feeling and cant sleep'. would cold water extracting my pills even be a good idea? i just want to feel better, ive got a newly filled script here and just cant get a good feeling. do i feel bad due to not having tapered down from the tramadol, or from all the tylenol i snorted from the oxycodone? can someone please tell me what i should do and how to feel better? with it all in my system right now will it even benefit me to try the cwe at the moment? can someone help me?

Did you say that you are snorting the whole 5/325 mg tabs? That's insane. How can you handle that much APAP up your nose? OMG thats....I.....uh........dude!!!!STOP!!!

[oxneme1]

------ Cold Water Extraction -----

I know most people here already know how to do this, and I'm sure people have linked to instructions before, but I thought I'd post it anyways because some people ask for complete instructions. It could be new to someone here though.

Cold water extraction (CWE) is a method of extracting opiates from pills that contain a painkiller such as acetaminophen (a.k.a paracetamol, Tylenol, or APAP), aspirin, or ibuprofen. The reason doing this is desired is that the bad painkiller is added so the drug in the pill cannot be used recreationally without overdosing on the bad drug in it. For example: A pill contains codeine and APAP in a ratio of 15 mg / 500 mg. If someone wanted to take 180 mg of codeine, they would also have to take 6000 mg of APAP. Taking that much APAP would cause a lot of liver damage. This makes the pill impossible to use recreationally.

Cold water is the solution to this problem. It works by dissolving the opiate drug into water, leaving the other ingredients behind. The other painkiller is left behind because they don't dissolve at the temperature opiates do. This means as long as a pill contains an opiate, you can safely take the dose you want (assuming the dose you want is safe) even if it also contains an anti-abuse painkiller. Cold water extraction is effective, fast, and easy to do.

--- Info ---
* CWE works with codeine, hydrocodone (Vicodin), and oxycodone (Percoset).
* 4000 mg of APAP causes liver damage. Going higher can cause liver failure or death. That is why it is necessary to remove it.
* The result is a bitter liquid containing the opiate dissolved in water and no or barely any APAP, aspirin, or ibuprofen.
* Some APAP or other bad stuff goes in. It's okay, we just want the majority of it out.
* You should read the whole document before you try to do an extraction.
* Make sure you know what is in the pill you are trying to separate.
* If the pill contains any caffeine, this method won't remove it.
* Ask me if you are confused about anything.

--- Materials Needed ---
Opiate-containing painkiller like codeine w/ APAP (eg. Tylenol 1 / 2 / 3), hydrocodone w/ APAP (eg. Vicodin), oxycodone w/ APAP (eg. Percocet), etc.

Some prior knowledge of the pills you're using. Things like what it contains, how many you need for the desired dose, etc.

Water

Flat surface, razor / credit card, and hard flat-sided object (for crushing the pills).

Liquid measuring cup. In cups or mL's.

Cheesecloth or coffee filters

A freezer (or just refrigerator, but it will take longer)

Plastic bottle with lid or glass jar with lid

Bowl

--- The Procedure ---

1.) Determine the dose you want to take of the opiate and set out the amount of pills needed to achieve that dose. For example: if I want to take 25 mg od hydrocodone, I would set out 5 5/500 Vicodins. On a flat, smooth surface, crush the pills into a very fine powder. I used the plain side of a domino, anything flat and hard will work. Make sure you crush up any chunks of the pill you missed. Take your credit card or razor and push the powder into a pile.

2.) Take about 1/2 a cup (100 mL) of water warm to hot water and pour it into your bottle, jar, or whatever you're using. Make sure the water isn't too hot, if you can hold your finger in it, it's okay. Take your pile of powder and pour it into the container of water somehow. Put a lid on and shake it up until you can't see the pile of powder in the water anymore. This should take around 5 mins.

3.) Take your bottle or jar and pour the liquid into the bowl as soon as you're done shaking. Put the bowl in your freezer (or fridge) and let it get really cold, but not to the point of freezing (~42° F or 6°C). When the temp. is right, or you can see stuff at the bottom of the bowl (about the same amount of powder you put in) you can take it out.

4.) Get a cup and out and put a piece of cheesecloth or a coffee filter on top. Hold the filter on and slowly pour the liquid through the filter and into the cup. Slow down if liquid gets close to running off the edge of the filter. Squeeze the last of the liquid out of the filter, being careful not to break it.

5 (optional).) Empty the contents of the filter and bowl into the bottle or jar and repeat steps 2 through 4. This will get the last of the opiate out. You will have a cup (200 mL) left if you do.

When you're all done, chug the liquid (it tastes pretty bad) or mix in some sugar or Kool-Aid and drink it. You could also evaporate the water (risks destroying the opiate in it!) (without boiling) and have a pure powder of whatever opiate you used. Pour the powder in some soda or do whatever you want with it.

Thanks for reading. Have fun and be safe.

Any comments, questions, or concerns?

>>>>>>>>> if your water is to warm it will destroy the good stuff. and are u supposed to wait untill their is a little layer of ice on top b4 u take it out to drain it

[oxneme1]

i take about 20 norcos a day 10/325! iv done pill wash b4 but im always out and dont have a portable freezer to take with me! and i also take suboxen when i dont have anything else. is their free clinics to detox or idk somthing ike that. i live in ventura county california??

[OxyFlower]

Hi All,
I take about 25 7.5/750 per day and so HAVE to use the CWE method. Some of the tips I have are:


1. Buy a coffee filter holder. Melitta sells one for about $5

https://shop.melitta.com/itemdy00.asp?T1=64+007&Cat=

2. Warm the solution to insure mixing

3. Use 2-3 filters

4. Wet filters in holder and place in freezer. Wet filters stop "good stuff" from creeping up the sides.

5. Add an ice cube to the very cold solution while it is filtering.

Using this method I end up with a very clear solution. The holder makes a huge difference. Hope this helps someone save their liver.

PS.
Also, I occasionally take SAM-E supplements which primarily contain s-adenosyl-methionine which appears to be effective in reducing Acetaminophen toxicity in the liver.

http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB....asp?Doi=78086

DAMN! Thanks man, that advice was pretty useful. I always knew it was a waste when I saw the water creep up the sides of the filter, so I always squeeze as much as I can out when I'm done, then lick my fingers What a feind, huh? Seriously, though that was pretty helpful. Thank you

[OxyFlower]

Did you say that you are snorting the whole 5/325 mg tabs? That's insane. How can you handle that much APAP up your nose? OMG thats....I.....uh........dude!!!!STOP!!!

I KNOW I KNOW! I have friends who snort lots of Vicodin and I'm like...what the?... how the? WHY!?!? I couldn't imagine. To each her own, though. But seriously, why not just crush em and drink it with milk or parachute or something?

[Hypnotized]

My $#%* knee doctor would only give me darvocet for some severe knee pain I've got (surgery coming in May). So I think I want to CWE the Darvocet because they are 100mg/600mgAPAP. Way too much tylenol!

So is it worth it? Anyone know? I probably would need to crush up 5.

[Ranga]

My $#%* knee doctor would only give me darvocet for some severe knee pain I've got (surgery coming in May). So I think I want to CWE the Darvocet because they are 100mg/600mgAPAP. Way too much tylenol!

So is it worth it? Anyone know? I probably would need to crush up 5.

Nah just eat them, that's only 3g of APAP. If it's under 4g it's fine in moderation.

[mars]

The pills are Oxycodone 10/650. 5 pills were used for this first procedure.

To crush them:
Put in a small cooking pot and use the end of a "Mag-Lite" flashlight to break them up into a fine powder.

To dissolve:
Put about 50 ML of warm water in to pot. Swirl water around in pot to dissolve even further.

To cool:
Place pot in freezer and occasionally check to make sure solution is not freezing. Take pot out of freezer.

To filter:
Cut a section out of a old button up white dress shirt about the size of a wash cloth to use as a filter. Cut a slim piece out of the shirt about an inch or so thick and about ten inches long. Wet the filter/shirt down and wring out. Fold in half and put in freezer for about 30 seconds. Wet it again and wring out. Stuff some of the filter/shirt down in a clear glass leaving about two inches hanging over the edge. Used the slim piece of shirt to tie around the glass and secure the filter/shirt. Pour the solution in the pot into the filter/shirt. When it slows to a drip remove the tie and bring all the corners of the filter/shirt together and squeeze the rest of the liquid out leaving behind a white gunk (the acetaminophen). Put gunk back in pot and repeat the dissolving, cooling, and filtering process to make sure you get all your goodies.

To filter again:
Wet down two coffee filters together and stick in freezer for a few seconds. Stuff down into a second cup and use the slim piece of shirt to secure them. When it stops dripping take the filters out of the cup and squeeze the liquid into the cup. What is in the cup is your finished product.

What do you think? You think this would remove enough of the APAP so it is not harmful for a person to take half of this dose several times a day? Also, if you accidentally let some of the solution freeze would it harm it?

[cnc68]

Is it more difficult with colored lortab like blue or pink?

[Socially Inept]

Is it more difficult with colored lortab like blue or pink?

Nope, I've done it with all colored pills and it all works the same way. Your end result will be a cloudy pink or blue color, though..

[HeavilySedated]

I just spent an hour (or more) banging out my first post only to find I was no longer logged on and lost it all. I promise you, it was epic.


But now that the wife and kids will be home soon, I will have to be brief and...less epic.

I usually take 6-10 Norcos a day. I don't bother with extraction since the apap levels are still low--but not exactly healthy.

I recently came into some 7.5/750s, however, and knew I had to get the apap out of there if I was to enjoy them at all. So, after reading a lot of forums, including those wherein smart alecky types said CWE is bunk and doesn't remove any APAP, I chose to believe that it did, and liked this thread in particular.

I have already done one CWE this afternoon and the results seem to be successful. At least I am feeling good about it. Literally. And if I had screwed up and taken too much APAP I assume I would know by now.

I will report on my own tweaks to the process, and subsequent notes, but for now I have a few questions I am hoping you kind people might answer.

1) What is the significance of being able to roll the remaining gunk into a ball? I have seen these mentioned in some threads as if it indicates exactly what kind of sediment you have on your hands, quite literally.

2) I ask this because after my first CWE, I ended up with liquid that pretty much resembled the stuff in the photos on the other thread. So I scraped the filter and added the white gunk to the white gunk at the bottom of the freezer container (I used a large plastic measuring cup and some of the stuff at the bottom was so thick that it did not even pour out. Ihave seen some threads where it says to stir it up when getting it out of the freezer, but this one does mention that step, and it would seem to defeat the purpose of the separation that one has just spent a good twenty minutes trying to achieve.) Nevertheless, I scraped all that stuff together, and ran the process on it again. I am letting it drip into a large glass through two coffee filter. Slow going, but the liquid seems less cloudy than my first batch.

And here is my question: If, when the last drop is done, I don't have a bunch of white gunk--at least close to the amount that I scraped in there--what should I assume? That A) I have a glass of liquid APAP and binders on my hands, or B, this is just the remaining opiate dregs? aAgain, I ask this only if there is not a significant amountof gunk left in the filter. If there is, I think I am safe. Or at least safer than if there is not.

So thanks for reading this and answering my questions and I look forward to a long and prosperous relationship.

Cheers,

HS

[JimBurke]

I'm rather new at this, Trying to get off oc's and I tried the CWE with 6 X 5/500 Vics. Took a long ass time but I think I did it right and feel prett decent for the moment. Thanks for the instructions, although I bet there is a better more efficient way of getting ALL of it out. The hardest part was crushing (took an hour, I'm pretty stupid) and waiting for the solution to filter. Plus I did not wet the filters first, I'm sure I lost some so I sucked on the filters and the buzz was better. I'm anti acetimetephin fucked up a lot of my friends so I believe this has to be a cleaner way. Also noticed less of a withdrawal at the end, but thats just me...Thanks...Jim

[JimBurke]

Oh, If I want to dry the cleaned solution and snort it, how do you do that? Heat will mess it up from what I read, How could I get pure hydro powder? I used to snort an 1/8th of a oc 40 and be satisfied for hours, gotta taper down...thanks for any advice...

[HeavilySedated]

Fascinated with this approach, but could you possibly give more details? Sounds like you are doing your filtering in the freezer...not the norm, I believe, so a more detailed description of your process would e appreciated.

Thanks,

HS

Hi All,
I take about 25 7.5/750 per day and so HAVE to use the CWE method. Some of the tips I have are:


1. Buy a coffee filter holder. Melitta sells one for about $5

https://shop.melitta.com/itemdy00.asp?T1=64+007&Cat=

2. Warm the solution to insure mixing

3. Use 2-3 filters

4. Wet filters in holder and place in freezer. Wet filters stop "good stuff" from creeping up the sides.

5. Add an ice cube to the very cold solution while it is filtering.

Using this method I end up with a very clear solution. The holder makes a huge difference. Hope this helps someone save their liver.

PS.
Also, I occasionally take SAM-E supplements which primarily contain s-adenosyl-methionine which appears to be effective in reducing Acetaminophen toxicity in the liver.

http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB....asp?Doi=78086

[HeavilySedated]

------ Cold Water Extraction -----

5 (optional).) Empty the contents of the filter and bowl into the bottle or jar and repeat steps 2 through 4. This will get the last of the opiate out. You will have a cup (200 mL) left if you do.

I have read so much about CWE in the last few days that my eyes are starting to run out of my head. I followed your method today, using large plastic measuring cup as freezer vessel, and got a TON of white crap at the bottom. I did NOT pour this in with the first batch of filtered liquid.

After the process was done and I had cloudy fluid similar to those in the photos, I took the white gunk from the filter, added it to the white gunk in measuring cup, then repeated steps 2 -4 as advised. While I expected to get almost the same amount of white gunk from the second filtration, I got much less--which worried me. I read elsewhere to add COLD WATER to the leftover gunk, but I followed these instructions and did the warm water to freezer process again. And as I wrote, there was much less gunk this time around, which made me think I either got a lot more hydrocodone out, or that the APAP had totally dissolved in the water and I now had concentrated APAP solution. So I put the jar in the fridge forabout six hours and a very small amount of sediment went to the bottom. I filtered through coffee filters and took my time, and at the end it all there was maybe a gram or so of sediment on the filter.

Tough call, but does anyone know what I have on my hands? Is there a way to test it? Somone mentioned the awful taste of APAP, but let's face it, the properly filtered hydro is hardly ambrosia. Guess I could liquify some tylenol and taste it , but i don't know if my palate is that discriminating when it comes to awful tastes.

Any help here would be appreciated. I got so much gunk out today in round one, but when i ran that through the process again and came up with much less, that's when i started to worry.

Thanks!

HS

[Zak2010]

What happens if you don't completely crush the pills into a snortable/fine powder? Will it still be fine? Also how much APAP does it filter normally %wise? And how much, if any, hydrocodone do you lose?

[Anonymous]

If you're having trouble crushing it up, I suggest putting it in a folded bill and crushing it with the convex side of the spoon. Or of course you could use a hose clamp. If you don't completely crush the pill, it should be fine as long as the pill completely suspends or dissolves in the solution and there are no chunks left over. If there are chunks you risk the content below their surface not getting absorbed.

I'm not sure of any percentages, all I can say is you will lose some hydrocodone, but very little if you do it well.

[budding_young_chemist]

if u accidentally let th solution freeze, then put it in th fridge to come back to liquid, does it affect the result/ cos my first extraction worked fine, and the second one seemed to have bugger all potency..

also its not possible to bump it is it? due to the huge histamine release (codeine phosphate)

oh and one last thing..what the heck is parachuting

cheers learnt so much tonight

[Anonymous]

As long as you filter it when it's really cold it should work fine.

[budding_young_chemist]

cheers, i also suspect it is possible i tore the filter as solution was much cloudier the second time i did the process

[budding_young_chemist]

As for a quick and effective method of crushing...go th mortar and pestle..heavy duty like marble or something is best, only takes me a couple of bashes, first time i did it took friggin aaages so i went out and bought one

[tried almost everything]

Im doing this as soon as i can get get some codiene

[Socially Inept]

oh and one last thing..what the heck is parachuting

Parachuting is when you crush up a few pills (I always use a motar and pestle, too), pour the powder into something then swallow it. The most common ways are to get a piece of two ply toilet paper, separate the "plys" and use the thinnest side to dump the powder in. Twist it at the top and cut off any excess paper, then swallow with something like milk or water. You could also just add the powder to a small amount of water (like shot glass size) and drink it down, but it tastes really bad. So one way your eating a small amount of toilet paper, one way you have a disgusting elixir to swallow, but they both work basically the same way. The pill absorbs faster once it gets into your stomach because it's already so finely ground, which makes your high come on quicker and harder.

[30yrSpinalSurgeryMom]

I started looking for a way to lessen the damage on my liver after finding that my liver function enzymes test results were not favorable, and I'm a single mom of a 2yr old, who really needs her Mommy to not die from liver dysfunction..

A little history as to why I even need to be on this site. I started having back problems as a teenager, having been diagnosed with degenerative disc disease at age 15, and after a severe car accident in 2006, I was left with no choice but to have spinal surgery last year in hopes that I would be at least 30% better pain wise. I have 9 screws and 2 ten inch rods ~ and just as much pain a year after surgery as before the surgery itself.

I was on Vicodin 5/325 for about 2 years, then up to the 7.5/325s for another 2 years, then up to Norco 10/325, been switched back and forth between Percocet 10/325 and Norco 10/325 for the last 2 years.. other than when they also added a Fentanyl 100mg patch ontop of my 6 Norco a day before my surgery October 2009, which they also continued to keep me on until I asked to weane off of the Fentanyl back in May of this year.

Unfortunately, I'm now taking up to 10 Norco10/325 a day just to be able to get out of bed, and awaiting another appointment with the surgeon, in December. I don't take my medications in excess to feel a high, I take them til I can walk without pain... but I have REFUSED the oxcycontin offered to me, and refuse to go back on the fentanyl due to the severe withdrawls that I did experience even when weaning down to each lower dose before I stopped altogether, because with my outlook.. whats going to work for me in the next 5 years??

I've asked my doctor if theres anything I can do to avoid the damage to my liver, and continue to be in as less pain as possible, and his suggestion was a permanent intravenous morphine pump... I can't do that just yet because I DO need more surgery...

So here I am... needing the most clearly stated information possible as to how I can do a cold water extraction to yield the absolute best results, for the sake of my little girl right now.

I have begged for medicinal marijuana, as it does help me with some pain relief, but unfortunately, my pain management physician believes that marijuana does more damage than good in regards to his own patients, and I'm sure theres a different reason than him telling me "its just because I really do care that I can't give you THC pills.."

If any of you know any other things that I can do to help with pain relief, while NOT further damaging my liver, I will research/consider every suggestion passed my way.

Depression is an ugly thing when linked with severe pain, and to find out that I'm having to kill my liver if I want to walk even 10 feet, is just all that more depressing.

[Socially Inept]

Why wouldn't you stay on the fentanyl? It's a much better pain killer than anything your going to get with APAP in it and does much less (if any) damage to your organs. If it's the acetaminophen your concerned about (and it's a very valid reason for concern), why not just use something without it? Why do you refuse oxycontin but accept percocet? They both have the same narcotic (oxycodone), only one contains APAP and the other does not. You could also ask your doctor about Opana.. there really are lot's of good medicine that don't have APAP