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Ikonoclast
01-29-2005, 07:52 AM
In this thread I will postulate and answer three specific questions pertaining to the use of drugs in soceity as a global whole.

What are psychedelics for?
What longstanding benefits can be sought from the use of psychedelics?
What is the future of psychedelics in society?

Of course no one can predict the future, or say what might become of the world. There are many obvious possibilities, like every nation becoming a police state and the use of psychedelics suppressed. We may not get even that far, before nuclear, biological, or chemical warfare end society as we know it. I choose to focus on the positive possibilities and make those positives outcomes my goals, and do my part, however minute that may be, to work towards these positive changes.

The decriminalization of all substances worldwide is not a pipedream. It is an inevitability. Not only decriminalization, but legalization as well. This has already begun for Europe, as some of it's countries have already discovered the monetary and cultural benefits of legalizing and taxing the sale of mind altering substances. The reason I call decriminalization and inevitability? Because it is the single logical solution to this mess of scandalous and criminal activity that is "The War on Drugs".

There is no "war on drugs". The American government has created a war on personal freedom through the neglect of revelant information, and the spread of anti-drug propaganda through a politically controlled media. From the hour of it's foundation, the war on drugs has been nothing more than a misinformed vandetta serving one man's (http://www.heartbone.com/no_thugs/hja.htm) thirst for money and power, and a means of control for Governments.

Because of a prohibition on things like psilocybe mushrooms, LSD, MDMA, and other such psychedelics, psychonauts are forced to buy these substances on the same black market as heroin and crack. The violent crimes associated with drugs are in almost every instance never associated with psychedelcis, rahter narcotics. So not only are we psychonauts an unwilling participant in the sales of narcotics, but because all of this is clandestine, things such as the purity and dose of a substance take a backseat in priority to staying out of the prison system.

Please keep in mind at all times, the people who actually profit from the war on drugs are mostly drug dealers and politicians. Because of prohibition, there is no competition for these drug dealers, no reason for them to care about the purity of what they sell, or who they sell to, because in the end it's still illegal. By this same logic, innocent people are caught in the violent crossfire of drug wars on this black market. Remember that political power influences the media, which in turn influences the masses. This is the great irony. CNN reports an innocent person killed in the crossfire between drug dealers, and the public cries out. The politicians respond with a system so full of nonsense that to be a cannabis smoker equates you a terrorist. Whilst the public does not realize that these drug dealers can only exist in a system of prohibition, the government spends millions of public taxes on a War on Drugs which after more than 50 years has amounted to what? Drugs today are purer, more easily obtainable, and more doggedly persecuted by media and law than they were 50 yeras ago. It would seem that substance abuse is inevitable, and "The War on Drugs" is merely a euphemism for a system of consequences designed by archaic moral codes to apply to unconsequential actions from modern man.

But aside from all that for awhile, why does one use drugs? Substances like heroin, crack, and alcohol have but one purpose in their use. That purpose is to escape. To escape pain, to escape reservation, or to escape reality itself for a time is the simultaneous purpose and addiction for these substances and their users. When approaching substance use from this perspective, the individual seldom has an interest in improving him/herself or the state of affairs surrounding them.

Psychedelics are a completely different case. The majority of individuals choosing to use psychedelics use them as a tool for self change. Psychedelics produce a profound state of mind that by its nature has the potential to bring about realization or change in a person. There is no addictive "high" (unless we get more into dissociatives) to substantiate these substances being grouped with narcotics. It is more a shift in perspective. Perspective taking is the most important tool among all in communication, and psychedelics allow bounds to be redefined in a search for perspective, empathy, or understanding. Example, before MDMA was outlawed, it was being used by psychiatrists worldwide to treat PTSD and Manic Dpression. The substance encouraged feelings of openess to repressed issues, acceptance where once was denial, and a deeper connection to your fellow human. Back to 2005, you won't hear that on CNN but you might hear about someone who unwisely took 35 doses of MDMA and died. Even most examples of MDMA overdoses can be attributed to misinformation, which can be attributed once more to the effects of prohibition.

The facet of facination for psychedelics lies in their ability to bring a person to a place he has never been, or to show him something he has never seen, or to tell him something he has never heard. All animals are curious beings. Infants of all species stumble into this world in awe, and never cease to explore and discover untill they die. Humans are just another animal, only one with sentience and the ability to recognize himself as unique in his surroundings. There is an underlying understanding to the workings of the world we have always sought. Psychedelics only expand on this prinicpal.

The role psychedelics will play in our species future is up for debate, but I am a firm believer in all aspects of Life regarding the same principal that Life regards: Everything is cyclical. This is another way to say "history repeats itself". Psychedelics have been apart of our evolution since we have existed, some would say they were the pogenitor of sentience. Webster defines Sentience as Awarness. Psychedelics such as the ergot and tryptamine alkaloids have produced profound states of self awarness surpassing description. They have played a role in our evolution since Apes in Africa found Psilocybe Cubenis to be a source of nutrition, shaping the developement of our neural pathways and guiding us to sentience over the course of thousands of years, before any "god" had existed. I believe they will have a roll in our future evolution as well.

I see our future evolution as two murky paths insparable from the variables clouding each. Our species has done something entirely unique to this planet, which is to destroy everthing around us. Admirable, no. Unique, yes. We simultaneously have the ability to take our evolution and the evolution of every other species on this planet to places not even conceivable right now. We are such masters of contradiction! Whilst holding the planet's greatest gift and hope, sentience, we continually destroy the world surrounding.

One of these paths is already coming to be tread without a concious choice being made. Society is speeding headlong to a cement wall. And when we hit, we will claim we never saw it coming and call it a tradgedy, or blame someone or somegod for everything. The social structure we have all come to embrace is deteriorating around us. People foresake each other to such ridiculous extent. "Killing in the name of _____."

The second path is salvation from hatred, from biggotry. Suffering will always exist. Not only is it the condition on which we are born, but the source of our greatest strength as well. But social sufffering does not have to exist. Issues like hatred can be prevented, if not be made extinct. The distinct sense of brotherhood psychedelics produce has demonstrated itself time and again throuhout American history. Psychedelics are once again our means to further evolution. The term "evolutionary agents" is frequently used when discussing psychedelics and I find this to be an appropriate description. If one is willing to entertain the idea that humanity has not reached the ultimate end of evolution, it is easy to see that psychedelics act as catalysts to develop higher abilities in the mind. In summary psychedelics will change humanity into a peaceful, more intelligent fastly evolving society.

These are the only two paths I can imagine resulting from the War on Drugs. Either all drugs become legal and society moves towards evolution, or prohibition continues as countries slowly turn into police states where the drug dealers and politicians wage continual war at the expense of countless innocent peoples, eventual outcome our continual deterioration as a moral species, and with escalation; extinction.

Namaste,
Glenn

Quoth the Raven
01-29-2005, 08:17 AM
All this is very true.. we can see everywhere the suppression of substances that - shock horror! - might actually allow people to THINK CLEARLY FOR ONCE. The War on Terror and the War on Drugs are nothing but a sham. Governments want to keep people afraid, because people living in fear of drug users or terrorists seldom think hard about just what is actually going on here - the infamous USA PATRIOT act, better dubbed the "Now we can fuck you in the ass and you will like it" Act. Hippies and psychonauts are not the enemy, people. A corrupt government that sells your freedom to big oil companies is the TRUE demon of our times.

In another vein, from what we see in the news the propaganda machine is turning out grade-A bullshit at a rate of knots. "cannabis causes mental illness" (from the news this lunchtime). "Cannabis is highly addictive" - what about the multi-million-dollar per year tobacco industry? Tobacco is many times more addictive than cannabis, and yet the government seems hell-bent on preventing people from having a good time (cigarettes have little to no effect compared to cannabis).

combat_potato
01-29-2005, 03:54 PM
I read your entire post, and I applaud the time you spent on it. This has been one of the best threads and best thought through posts I have read in a long time. Whether you agree with what hes saying or not, you must admit he deserves the plus I shall give him and some respect.

I think the most profound thing you said was in reference to the war on drugs. Cocaine, since the war on drugs, has a 17,000% markup price. If it were to cost $1 to make so much, it would sell for $17,000. This is making these terrorists and druglords filthy rich. These people can get away with selling this stuff for so expensive because the drug is so addictive the market for it is completely unelastic. It is completely unfair to put lysergic acid, or psycocibin together with that. No psychonaut will drop a ridiculous amount of money on these drugs, because they psyiologically do not need this drug. I agree that legalization is a much better decision. This is not the time for conservative domestic policy.

Dagfari
01-29-2005, 05:14 PM
And the funny thing is, most people buy into it.

Maybe it's not funny. I'm thinking it's sad.

What made me go "LAUGHAUGHLAULAUGHLAGLUH"
Was on the Anslinger website - " This marijuana causes white women to seek sexual relations with Negroes, entertainers, and any others."

One: What's wrong with entertainers?
Two: What about that marijuana? *points*

Also, I think I've read this elsewhere.

Psychonaut's Manifesto perhaps?

I know for certain I've seen those last two paragraphs elsewhere.

ThatCrazyBrazilian
01-30-2005, 03:04 AM
Wow. I've pondered about those three questions for a while. I will be honest with you and say that, due to lack of time, aside from muscle relaxants(which causes a tiny amount of hallucinations, if any), I've yet to surf the waves of euphoria and trip. I don't quite recall how it was that I stumbled upon that website, but someday, while browsing the internet and perhaps playing with search terms on google, I found The Good Drugs Guide (httP://www.thegooddrugsguide.com) website. After reading all the information that they gave on psilocybe mushrooms, I was hit with a rush of thoughts, curiosities, and emotions. "If there are no side effects other than the desired one of hallucinating, why is this substance illegal?" "I want to try this, but I'm scared of getting caught and going to jail."

I don't quite recall which late-night movie it was that I checked out, but there was a part of it in which this man went inside a complex and got either drugs or sex for a certain amount of money. As soon as I found out that psilocybe mushrooms weren't really physically harmful, I wondered why was it that there couldn't be a "break" form this law which allowed somebody to trip so long as they were being supervised and put inside a clean, healthy, friendly environment.

Hell, my fascination with psychedelics only skyrocketed after I found The Good Drugs Guide (httP://www.thegooddrugsguide.com) website. Later on, I discovered Living With Style. Needless to say, I am always enthralled by lurking the Drugs and Booze forum. Also, while on this lust for new information, I discovered Erowid (httP://www.erowid.org). Needless to say, reading the trip stories, I melted with a ravenousness to try these drugs.

Being a fan of dance music, trance, and electronica, I had been exposed to the word ecstasy quite a few times. I, like many fans of dance music had my moments (and still have, occasinally) in which I would just blast music and dance. Oh, and I would go insane when exposed to this setting and glowsticks. After seeing how much fun this was, I decided to go off and check out some information about raves and the such. Immrdiately I heard about the rampant use of ecstasy(MDMA). Back to The Good Drugs Guide (httP://www.thegooddrugsguide.com) and Erowid (httP://www.erowid.org) for me. I spent countless hours digging up information and visiting reccomended links by those websites and I absolutely fell in love with the drug. Hearing about it's effects and the sheer fact that it doesn't truely cause an addiction made me fall in love with this drug. And hell, I still haven't done either psicolybe mushrooms or MDMA, yet I continue thinking very highly of them. Just four nights ago, I watched Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas and got very turned on to the idea of LSD. After reasearch(you can tell that I like to look shit up..haha) I discovered that amazingly, LSD didn't really have an addiction nor any physical side effect. I had been taught that LSD will "fuck you up" and make you "go crazy" all of my life, and then suddenly I hear that it actually isn't quite like that? Wow.

So almost a year after a spark ignited my burning passion for these psychedelic drugs, I have still to do either of them, however, my view have been turned one hundred and eighty degrees. I think in a completely different fashion than I used to before, thanks to fate. And now that I'm done with my rambling on about my past, I'll tell you about your topic. Supposedly, I would have to say right off the bat that, from what I've been noticing lately, a very large number of people do or have done psychedelic drugs. This makes me wonder why it is that no one has spoken out to the government or somehow protested the fact that these harmless drugs are prohibited. If you take a look at alcoholic bevarages and cigarettes, they seem to be much worse than psychedelic drugs. Personally, when talking about cigarettes, I find them seriously moronic. They cause you to have dingy fingernails sometimes, the odor isn't all so pleasing, you become hooked, you feed the propaganda saying that it's "cool" to smoke, and your lungs worsen every puff you take. Alcoholic bevarages, on the other hand will make you start loosening up and doing silly stuff, so that drug, can be fun. However, they do affect your liver, which could lead to problems later on in life. Those two drugs cause physical problems; Psychedelic drugs do not cause physical problems.

I often think and get confused thinking about why the government does not legalize psychedelics. This industry, while prices would lower significantly, would bring in a very large sum of money. With taxes, the country could really benefit form these sales. Also, from the tales that I have read and/or heard about, psychedelic drugs open up your mind to a whole new perspective. Isn't fairness, tolerance, and equality what this country is based on? Well, perspective plays an enormous part in all of this. With the spread of perspective to everybody, wouldn't reason dominate? I recall once an idea that I had in which everybody would have to take MDMA perhaps once a month or once every other month. I thought baout this because I figured that if it made everybody happy and opened up people's eyes and made them be sociable and open, why not? Eventually a new brotherhood would be formed. Of course, this idea surely is preposterous due to the fact that freedom is all about choice and the fact that one should not be forced to do anything and should be able to decide on his or her own to do the correct choice..

While I cannot comfirm this at all and this is a total shot in the dark, I feel as if the psychedelic community grows every day. If this is true, then eventually certain strikes and protests would be held leading to a reform in law. As psychonauts, I would reccomend that you start slowly attracting at least one person to this life-changing experience of psychedelic drugs and to get them to do the same. This could become kind of like a pyramid-scheme thing without the "scheme" part. Finally, someday, somewhere, a brave and wise soul whom has had expierience with psychedelics might take the stage somewhere and lead on which a speech talking about the same subjects we speak of here tonight. By that time, if psychonauts attracted others, the support for this person would be pretty large. Perhaps that day will mark the beginning of a new "Psychedelic Age".

It's currently 3:00AM and perhaps I am not coherent about much of what I've been saying, however, I think I managed to get my point accross. Sorry if I have too many errors in my spelling or grammar.


tl;dr version: Since many people take them, they do not cause physical damage, and give many people a good amount of new perspective, psychedelic drugs should be legalized.

Lysergic
01-30-2005, 09:31 PM
Glenn you are a genius and I would follow you through the impeading revolution
Warned: Feb 01, 2005 12:19 AM by solecistic for "AI bad post warning"

ThatCrazyBrazilian
01-31-2005, 11:12 PM
Ikonoclast, perhps this thread would do better in the Drugs and Booze forum? I mean, I do understand how it's an intellectual concept and all, however, it seems as if the big fans of D&B aren't usually the big fans of Armchair Intellectuals, perhaps. I don't know, after I thoroughly stated my thoughts and opinions and you wrote your very strong argument and posed your questions, I'm surprised that you barely got any response form the members of LWS. Oh well, I suppose you win some and you lose some..

(Didn't mean to derail this thread, sorry)

Ikonoclast
02-01-2005, 07:44 AM
Ikonoclast, perhps this thread would do better in the Drugs and Booze forum? I mean, I do understand how it's an intellectual concept and all, however, it seems as if the big fans of D&B aren't usually the big fans of Armchair Intellectuals, perhaps. I don't know, after I thoroughly stated my thoughts and opinions and you wrote your very strong argument and posed your questions, I'm surprised that you barely got any response form the members of LWS. Oh well, I suppose you win some and you lose some..

(Didn't mean to derail this thread, sorry)
I was a bit suprised as well, I figured this is the kind of stufff that AI would eat up. I'll see if I can convince a mod to move it.

Rick Scarf
02-01-2005, 11:14 AM
Moved to Drugs and Booze. Here's hoping people actually read it, and reply with something more substantive than "lol great story"

GreyOne
02-01-2005, 11:38 AM
Well here's a request that hopefully someone can fullfil related to this thread. My husband and friends are very "tl;dr" kinda people. I mean I could give them pages of facts but does anyone has a well thought out clear and condensed version of this. Something that could be said in less than a minute or two? I guess I don't want to sound like a pot head going on a preaching spree to justify my means everytime this topic comes up and I'd like to have a handy dandy ready to go kinda answer that makes people go "Oh... well umm I guess you do have a point." No matter what I say my husband keeps slamming the "well no matter what your reasoning, it's still illegal." He agrees the alcohol is by far more lethal than pot could ever be but the fact that it's "illegal" remains. Any ideas? Thanks.


(TheMoo)

Ikonoclast
02-01-2005, 12:59 PM
Well here's a request that hopefully someone can fullfil related to this thread. My husband and friends are very "tl;dr" kinda people. I mean I could give them pages of facts but does anyone has a well thought out clear and condensed version of this. Something that could be said in less than a minute or two? I guess I don't want to sound like a pot head going on a preaching spree to justify my means everytime this topic comes up and I'd like to have a handy dandy ready to go kinda answer that makes people go "Oh... well umm I guess you do have a point." No matter what I say my husband keeps slamming the "well no matter what your reasoning, it's still illegal." He agrees the alcohol is by far more lethal than pot could ever be but the fact that it's "illegal" remains. Any ideas? Thanks.


(TheMoo)
Well if you take out the theories on past and future evoltution, and the focus on psychedelics, you get:

The decriminalization of all substances worldwide is not a pipedream. It is an inevitability. Not only decriminalization, but legalization as well. This has already begun for Europe, as some of it's countries have already discovered the monetary and cultural benefits of legalizing and taxing the sale of mind altering substances. The reason I call decriminalization and inevitability? Because it is the single logical solution to this mess of scandalous and criminal activity that is "The War on Drugs".

There is no "war on drugs". The American government has created a war on personal freedom through the neglect of revelant information, and the spread of anti-drug propaganda through a politically controlled media. From the hour of it's foundation, the war on drugs has been nothing more than a misinformed vandetta serving one man's thirst for money and power, and a means of control for Governments.

Because of a prohibition on things like psilocybe mushrooms, LSD, MDMA, and other such psychedelics, psychonauts are forced to buy these substances on the same black market as heroin and crack. The violent crimes associated with drugs are in almost every instance never associated with psychedelcis, rahter narcotics. So not only are we psychonauts an unwilling participant in the sales of narcotics, but because all of this is clandestine, things such as the purity and dose of a substance take a backseat in priority to staying out of the prison system.

Please keep in mind at all times, the people who actually profit from the war on drugs are mostly drug dealers and politicians. Because of prohibition, there is no competition for these drug dealers, no reason for them to care about the purity of what they sell, or who they sell to, because in the end it's still illegal. By this same logic, innocent people are caught in the violent crossfire of drug wars on this black market. Remember that political power influences the media, which in turn influences the masses. This is the great irony. CNN reports an innocent person killed in the crossfire between drug dealers, and the public cries out. The politicians respond with a system so full of nonsense that to be a cannabis smoker equates you a terrorist. Whilst the public does not realize that these drug dealers can only exist in a system of prohibition, the government spends millions of public taxes on a War on Drugs which after more than 50 years has amounted to what? Drugs today are purer, more easily obtainable, and more doggedly persecuted by media and law than they were 50 yeras ago. It would seem that substance abuse is inevitable, and "The War on Drugs" is merely a euphemism for a system of consequences designed by archaic moral codes to apply to unconsequential actions from modern man.
That's about as tl;dr as I could make it, hope it helps.

PS thanks for moving Rick.

dankotron3000
02-01-2005, 03:44 PM
Well here's a request that hopefully someone can fullfil related to this thread. My husband and friends are very "tl;dr" kinda people. I mean I could give them pages of facts but does anyone has a well thought out clear and condensed version of this. Something that could be said in less than a minute or two? I guess I don't want to sound like a pot head going on a preaching spree to justify my means everytime this topic comes up and I'd like to have a handy dandy ready to go kinda answer that makes people go "Oh... well umm I guess you do have a point." No matter what I say my husband keeps slamming the "well no matter what your reasoning, it's still illegal." He agrees the alcohol is by far more lethal than pot could ever be but the fact that it's "illegal" remains. Any ideas? Thanks.


(TheMoo)

Does he speed when he drives? Because that's illegal.

This country was founded by a bunch of people who were breaking the rules. Not doing something simply because it's illegal and not because it's right or wrong is simply anti-American, in my opinion.

GreyOne
02-01-2005, 04:00 PM
Does he speed when he drives? Because that's illegal.

I've used this one a handful of time and he claims that one is a misdomeaner and the other can get you in more serious trouble (he had more specifics) but it basicaly came down to one is a bigger no-no than the other. There really isn't no converting of people I don't think. I mean, his best friend was a stoner all their lives (the've known eachother 10+ years) and if his best friend hasn't convinced him by now I don't think anyone will. My husband is ok with people around him doing it, he just doesn't want any part of it and doesn't exactly think highly of it. I swear, some times I feel like I'm shooting heroine or something when I smoke in front of him! Anyhow thanks Ikonoclast, for the condesation.

dankotron3000
02-01-2005, 04:10 PM
I've used this one a handful of time and he claims that one is a misdomeaner and the other can get you in more serious trouble (he had more specifics) but it basicaly came down to one is a bigger no-no than the other. There really isn't no converting of people I don't think. I mean, his best friend was a stoner all their lives (the've known eachother 10+ years) and if his best friend hasn't convinced him by now I don't think anyone will. My husband is ok with people around him doing it, he just doesn't want any part of it and doesn't exactly think highly of it. I swear, some times I feel like I'm shooting heroine or something when I smoke in front of him! Anyhow thanks Ikonoclast, for the condesation.

In almost all states, possession is a misdemeanor as well.

Ikonoclast
02-02-2005, 12:36 PM
This country was founded by a bunch of people who were breaking the rules. Not doing something simply because it's illegal and not because it's right or wrong is simply anti-American, in my opinion.
You know that's something I never consider, how our ancestors were outlaws as well. I guess it only adds to the arguement for legalization, good post.

juice
02-02-2005, 04:00 PM
Just looking at the pure length of the post, I know it will be well worth my reading time and I have already threw you a vote. I will read it later however.

GreyOne, your husband sounds exactly like my parents. It's the fact that it is illegal, that is why they don't like me using it and have threatened to kick me out of the house, cut my freedoms by 3/4ths, etc. They can't be educated, I've tried my best on it. They are just older people who have grown up IN the 60's but brainwashed also by the 80's and 90's "Drug War".

StepInTheMirror
03-20-2005, 08:20 PM
I agree with all of your posts about legalization. I'd like to add some other pros of legalization.

Some people will say that marijuana is a gateway drug, that after using marijuana, people will go on to more dangerous and damaging, sometimes addictive substances. I disagree with this statement in most situations, but I see how it is possible. Since smoking weed is pushed into the underground, teenagers are more likely to see it as a forbidden fruit, and their motives for smoking weed will not be to have an eye opening experience, or a good time, but to conform to their 'cool' peers. If their peers are using psychadelics in a dangerous and irresponsible manner, then others are likely to follow this pattern. So if drugs were legalized instead of pushed into the underground, people would be less prone to the dangers of some addicting and physically damaging drugs.

PaulT
03-20-2005, 09:28 PM
You know that's something I never consider, how our ancestors were outlaws as well. I guess it only adds to the arguement for legalization, good post.

Here's a few quotes from some famous Americans on the subject.




"A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded."
-- Abraham Lincoln, December 8, 1840

"Make the most of the help India hemp seed, sow it everywhere!"
-- George Washington

"We shall, by and by, want a world of hemp more for our own consumption."
-- John Adams

"The greatest service which can be rendered any country is the add a useful plant to its culture!"
-- Thomas Jefferson

"Penalties against drug use should not be more damaging to an individual than use of the drug itself. Nowhere is this more clear than in the laws against possession of marijuana in private for personal use."
-- President Jimmy Carter, August 2, 1977


My favorite quote, maybe not a great american, but a great person:


"It really puzzles me to see Marijuana connected with Narcotics - Dope and all that crap…it's a thousand times better than whiskey - it's an Assistant - a friend."
- Louis Armstrong